Need some explanations and advices..

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  • #9058
    theuros
    Participant

    I play and enjoy TF … i’m a casual player not a pro ..  and i have some questions…

    q1. About frequency ? For example… I have a double track connecting two cities and two trains on it. Frequency is 8min. What happens or what is the difference if I set another same line and put one train from line 1 to line 2. So that I have two lines with one train on it connecting two cities. Frequency of each line is 16min .. but in practice frequency between cities is 8min.. do I loose potential travelers or they will automatically pick the line which has train closest to station ?

    to make it more clear:

    example A line 1:   city 1 —————- 2x trains (freq 8min) ————– city 2                                                          vs.
    example B line 1:  city 1 —————– 1x train (freq 16min) ————– city 2
    example B line 2:  city 1 —————– 1x train (freq 16min) ————– city 2

    q2.  I have a “capital” city (example A) in map center with big station .. and surrounding cities C,D,E,F

    From A I have multiple lines (2 train/line) to connect each city . All is fine, money is floating in .. Is there any benefit to create direct lines between C-D-E-F ? .. currently if anyone want to go from C to D must go C – A – D … if I connect C-D directly .. I will gain or loose something ?

    q3. As I know citizens will pick the optimal transport for their needs…. about my previous point where I have a big station connecting multiple cities. Is there any difference if I create multiple smaller station spread around city instead of one big central?

    q4. station placement in the city? .. I put passenger station near residential cones, and cargo for goods near commercial.

    q5. Each city has residents and jobs , luxuries ect…  how do I know how many residents are willing to go to a specific city? .. is there a way to know for example 20% of peoples work on city X? .. or they find a job there after they have a line connected? in short …how to know what cities is better to connect ?

     

    thanx

     

    #9075
    theuros
    Participant

    anyone ?

    #9084
    Yeol
    Participant

    Q1: I have better experiences with 2 trains that serve the 2 station on one line, then 2 separate lines with 1 train each. But is my personal subjective observation, no exact science. 😉

    Q2: If C and D are on one common line C-A-D, you don’t need to connect C and D directly. If you have 2 crossing lines: line C-A-D and E-A-F, then it might me beneficial to make a connection between the surrounding cities (eg C-E, D-F), but it might put in danger your 2 main lines. I would not make the extra connection unless the stions are more the 20-minutes away from city A

    Q3: one big central station reduces the necessity (and time wasting) to get from station to station by bus or tram. Several smaller stations around the city can encourage city grow, but I would maintain a central hub.

    Q4: Passengers station near residential quarter is ok, but cargo lays better near industry.

    Q5: you don’t know. The program will select at random an new destination. There is no general habit, fixed work or other pattern programed for the moment. So for instants each “day” a person is leaving fore work it will be another work place. So, with this kind of behaviour, it is impossible to predict how many people are going to take the train to a nearby city. I would personally like to see this changed, and for instance have that people have near-fixed work places. Only Then one can make traffic statistics and predictions.

    I hope my humble remarks can help you in developing a railway network. Succes and have fun! Train Fever is no exact science, but lot of testing en trying to figure out how things work. 😉

    #9110
    theuros
    Participant

    thanx for your reply

    about q2 …  main city A is in the center … if I connect C and D directly i get a faster and shorter way than using middle station in city A … is there any way to calculate traveling time? .. because there is no way of knowing how much time-profit passengers would have with a direct line… i don’t know neither if a passengers vrom C goes to D or all passengers from C and D go only to A …

    i’d like to have some more info about game mechanics…

    #9111
    Yeol
    Participant

    @theuros wrote:

    “i’d like to have some more info about game mechanics…”

    We all do! Not only about game mechanics but about the entire game. Manuals are still missing, ingame info is spares, error feedback is confusing… We are all waiting for manuals. Untill then, it’s trying, testing and finding out by reading on fora and experiences by playing the game. 😉

    • This reply was modified 6 years, 10 months ago by Yeol.
    #9159
    Azrael
    Participant

    Q5 answer of Yeol is incorrect:
    The Persons have a fixed home, working place, leisure place and shopping place.
    Those only change, when the according buildings disappear, temporary through upgrading, when they become a building site for a period of time or permanently through the player deleting the building.
    If you delete a house, where people live in, they disappear permanently, because the game doesn’t know homeless people.

    #9283
    Yeol
    Participant

    I have the information from the train-fever.com, in the questions and answers more below on that page. About the work place, they could already have modified it and maybe made it already semi-fix (not confirmed). The others though (leasure, shopping) are random. Thanks for your correction, Azrael. 😉

    see http://www.train-fever.com/2014/01/simulation-basics/

    quote, basil on January 26, 2014 at 21:49 said:

    Are you simulating people with a fixed residential and work place or are the destinations chosen randomly each time the person shows up in the game?

    Each time a person goes to work, shopping or leisure, a random destination within some maximal distance / traveling time is computed. At the moment, it’s randomly chosen each time, but it’s likely that we try to keep the working place constant at least (because in reality the working place stays constant for a long time). The residential place (home building) is constant of course.

    • This reply was modified 6 years, 10 months ago by Yeol.
    #9294
    bencze
    Participant

    I know you already got answers but I share my experience – I’m not a pro either 🙂

    Q1: I think there’s no benefit for 2 lines on the exact same route. In fact you might lsoe passangers because they don’t find a route with good enough frequency. Just use 3rd vehicle on same line if it’s financially feasible or better frequency is required (at 8 minutes I’d probably try a 3rd one, it should work out after some time)

    Q2: I wondered myself, but if people from C can get to D within 20 minutes (including some estimated walking time + take buses within cities) then I don’t think there’s any benefit for lines between C and D. Experiment. 🙂

    Q3: As long as you have decent local transportation and 1 central rain station in each, and people can get from anywhere to anywhere within 20 minutes I don’t think it matters. Of course it’s not easy to calculate their travel time, I just try and estimate stuff. (I figure, roughly travel time should be around, line frequency / number of vehicles * 2).

    Q4: Passengers go from residential to industrial and others and they go back home too, but often my city lines show that lines that prefer industrial districts work with a loss, it seems like people – while they do – are not so likely to switch lines.. not entirely sure about this one. Eg. I have line A that goes around residential area and line B that shares a couple of stations with A but goes around other areas, A will make profit B might not. Dunno. I generally prefer to have more stations in residential areas but touch some key points in other areas as well with some line combination. For train stations it depends, I like to place them around residential areas (and close to an  internal bus/tram station), but in fact people from a city go to shop or work to another. I think it just matters that they should be able to take full trip within 20 min.

    Q5: Afaik there’s no way to exactly calculate, but generally there’s always some people that want to travel. To see how much a route will use, you need to make a route and use it for some years then you’ll find out. I just try to be efficient, logically, and I am careful with use o trains because they’re very expensive to maintain, sometimes it’s difficult to make them turn a profit (eg. use cheaper engines on passenger lines and I just use best trains for high yield raw to secondary industry lines eg. where I serve 6-8 cities with one industry)

     

    I am not sure I care about lack of manuals, most things I found out by experimenting and some I learn here on forums. I found that a lot of things just make sense after you have a few pointers, the 20 minutes rule is most important and following a person or two shows you basically how the system works.

    #9382
    theuros
    Participant

    I hata that there is no way to calculate time…

    bencze => (I figure, roughly travel time should be around, line frequency / number of vehicles * 2).

    I think that formula is to inacurate .. you can’t split freq. by no of veichler .. freq is the max time someone is at the station .. ‘ there is train traveling time which is unknown.

    is hard to follow the rule under 20min if there is no way to get an estimate time between stations …

    #9477
    douglas
    Participant

    I’m making realistic lines. So, A to B to C to D to C to B to A. So it go and back in a line of nearby cities. But seems the game mechanics choose a random destination, its possible a citizen lives on A and work in B today and lives in A and work in C tomorrow.

    So should I make lines that go to 1 town only like A to B, A to C, A to D, etc? That would serve more citizens, as a person on a train to B than to C would take more time than a direct route.

    I connect all cities with fast service and still many choose car.

    #9535
    theuros
    Participant

    I have some more to discuss

    If you have three cities in a line .. A —– B —– C

    from my experience is better to have 2 lines (A – B  – A) and  (B – C – B) than one line (A – B – C – B – A) … All passengers on each station leave the train and new ones get on. So there is no point of creating long lines connecting multiple cities because there are no passengers which are wiling to go from A to C… so in TF is the best to have lines connecting only 2 cities ! ….. In real life I’ll be very mad if I had to switch the train on each stop…

    another question is about  city bus service. Let say we have multiple bus stops on North, West and East… What is the best aproach…

    1. connecting one straight line to all West stations, one line for North ones and one for East stations?

    2. Creating two circular lines ..
    – one circle going: train station – West – North – train station
    – and second: train station – East – North – train station

    3. Create only one long line which goes like: Station – West – station – North – station – East – station

    From real life I think the point 2 is mostly used … but in TF I read that is better to  have straight lines (1) ..  Mostly I like my option 3 because with a multiple cities with multiple lines it’s a mess and hard to maintain…  but frequency on one long line was

    How you do it ?

    ..and.. if you build two bus stops near train station and all merge it into one .. can you define that one bus line uses one bus stop and other the second one ? .. in my case all lines end in same bus stop.

     

     

    #9541
    Leetnor
    Participant

    People stay in the train If the train stops in B and people want to go from A-C 🙂

    (Limited by 20 min)

    Passenger stations must be in residential area!!

    (People go Home-Work-Home-Shop-Home-Leisure).

    I prefer to make an straight two way bus line directly from the station to the Work, leisure and Shopping areas. This way I get good land value and lots of people using my lines.

    I keep the frequency for trains to 3 min and busses to 70 sec.

    I make long lines. A-B-C-D-E-F (even more) for example.

    • This reply was modified 6 years, 10 months ago by Leetnor.
    #9622
    Yeol
    Participant

    I use the same system with satisfaction.

    #9718
    theuros
    Participant

    Thanx all for the answers … I have another two questions.

    I created a double track line connecting multiple cities. To the line between first two cities I added 2 trains .. I added 2

    more trains when I connected the third city … and so on for all next cities. Basically I want to have 2 trains for each city pair. Currently I have 4 cities connected and 6 trains on the line.

    My question is.. how many signals and where should I place them to have trains spreaded on entire network? I don’t want that two trains come to a city one after another. Currently I have signals only in front and behind stations … works more or less ok .. but is not optimal, because distance between cities is not equal and some trains waits to much time.   … any advice? … if I had any way to measure the length, then I would place them on equal distances from each other.

    My second question … same line from before. City station is on one side and track is connected to it… on the one side of the track I have a forest and sawmill … on the other side is industrial zone where goods are needed. So the problem is that the goods needs to cross the main double track passenger line.  I’d like to use trains for goods too .. so my question is how do you solve such crossings ? … I don’t like to mix passenger line with freighter ….

     

    #9722
    Yeol
    Participant

    Q1: I think it is not a real problem when trains are not perfectly spaced, as long as they do not all group up in one line. In your setup (double track, 4 cities, 6 trains) I would use no signals, and let the stations do the work. They have invisible signals. The only 2 signals you need are at both ends of the line where the tracks come together to the one platform of both end stations.  Destroy also all cross-overs left in your double track at the other stations (left-overs from a growing line). They are not needed, and just give potentially path problems. Until we have waypoints and alternative platform usage, I believe this simple setup is the most effective.

    Q2: In real life it is a common to use fly-overs to cross 2 double lines outside a station, so the trains do not have to cross each other and switch tracks in the station itself. If you do not have the space for a fly-over, you have to cross the lines on level, with points. And since we do not yet have crossings or slips, crossing lines on level is rather cumbersome and a hinder for smooth train traffic.

    But these are just my preferences. There is no “best” way. And a part of the fun is solving the puzzles. 😉

     

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