On the subject of non-dynamic platform choice

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  • #7555
    Yeol
    Participant

    I believe we will see some impovements on the station handling in the future. I am convinced (read: I hope), that the developers will see the necessity of waypoints to be able to explicitly tell where specific paths have to go, and so, which platform to use.

    Secondly, I believe (read again: I hope) that the developers are taking in consideration to implement alternative paths. So upon block or platform occupation, an alternative platform is used.

    And thirdly, an more elaborated signaling system is needed to influence when and how the flow of trains is approaching and leaving the station.

    I’m convinces it’s just a matter of time.

    #7707
    CrunchyBiscuit
    Participant

    I certainly hope so! I want this to become the best train transport simulation out there, so that there won’t be any reason whatsoever for anybody to go back to Railroad Tycoon, OpenTTD, Simutrans, Industry Giant, A-Networks, Sid’s Railroads or whatever.

    #7733
    disconnect
    Participant

    Actually, in reality passenger trains can arrive to different platforms that were assigned previously. Not always but it happens day to day, especially at bigger head end stations. It’s announced by speakers, and displays. Its very unlikely that a train waits at the entry for longer time, just because the pre assigned platform is occuppied. The controllers redirect it to an empty platform as soon as they can.

    • This reply was modified 6 years, 5 months ago by disconnect.
    #9548
    Cpt.Spaghetti
    Participant

    Since TF doesnt have a control center that coordinates train it’s lines and on the otherhand there are no timetable i think a dynamic waypoint system is definitely. For me it’s important that it feels realistic as if there is a control center. I mean there is always a diversity to reality, there is no perfect solution. Therefor i rather have trains switching tracks and platforms than a train waiting for specified track.

    But i also can see why someone says he prefers the system that is implemented right now.

    My suggestion would be, that there should be an option in the linewindow where u can enable dynamic waypoint system or the one we have. This way every one can decide by himself what he wants for a specific line. So pls Devs dont force certain behaviour if u dont need to.

    #9550
    vinkandoi
    Participant

    A lot of things could be done. Dynamic path choosing would be the best. Or, the easiest way would be to allow the user to switch path at junctions (and road intersections), to customize the entire line’s path. This will open gates for multiple things like station selection and path selection (path selection will be helpful for road lines).

     

    #9582
    Cpt.Spaghetti
    Participant

    switching path (set a waypoint) is definitly needed, but it wont solve all the problems because we cant foresee what happens when severall lines interact. There is no timetable. On very busy tracks there will always trains get stuck or wait too long even if there is a free line.

    #9593
    Cornughon
    Participant

    @CrunchyBiscuit:

    Also I just read this (Dutch):

    https://forum.ns.nl/op-station-17/schiphol-dubbele-spooraanduiding-op-vertrekstaat-903

    Which convinces me passenger trains should also be able to choose lanes at a station.

    I happen to be Dutch, and at the moment, Schiphol Airport is the only station in our country having some form of dynamic platform choice, however the restriction is a choice of 2 platforms tracks like either track 1 or 2 (which are either left or right on the same platform), or 5-6.

    Even Utrecht Centraal, which is the largest station in the amount of platforms has them fixed.

    I’m curious how many dynamic platform railway stations exist in real life, besides Warsaw Central.

    #9810
    Banter_NMBS
    Participant

    Honestly, I think that we’re perhaps cutting the corner a bit. In heavily railed countries in the West like Germany, Belgium, France, Netherlands, … -which is what Urban has taken their vision from I’d assume, what with them being Swiss- Trains are normally assigned a platform in the rl timetables. Example: Antwerp Central – Brussels South | 8:47 | IC | Platform 3. However, there are always going to be unforeseen circumstances.

    It’s exactly to brace against those anomalies that control centers can switch trains and platforms when needed, and dynamic information signs can inform passengers on the fly with a minimum of delay. Yes, trains are not 100% bound to a platform, but as seasoned rail travelers can tell you, they do have a platform they’re normally supposed to be at each time. That’s the first thing I’d like to contribute to this thread, and this discussion.

    Secondly, there may be a different way to solve this issue than simply waypoints or dynamic platforms. Instead, a ‘block spacing’ could be implemented. One could ask the trains on a route to keep a distance of 1-2 stations or even a distance of a certain amount of (travelling) time. Timetables seem less practical in a game that makes the (un)loading of a train last a month, but it may be possible to add an option to tell trains to keep a distance of say, 1 minute minimum or 2 minutes between each train.

    That, plus the fact that the game does already allow you to select a platform via clever use of the signals and signal placing should give us much more control over the system with a minimal need for intervention/modification. It’d just require more usage of the travel time-keeping mechanism.

    If we do get control over junctions though (or a timetable-esque solution is implemented), I’d love for it to be an unlockable. Make junctions/waypoints only be controllable in a fixed radius around a signhouse/control center; only allow time-spacing after the construction of a corporate HQ, that kind of thing. It’d really add to the theme of ‘rail transportation evolving over time’, and having signhouses/control centers next to your rails would be a neat realistic touch.

    I get that many people want to continue the parallel between this and OTTD, but it isn’t OTTD (and it really isn’t TTD either). There’s stuff you can’t do in TF that is possible in OTTD, but TF does allow for quite a lot that OTTD doesn’t do. Try giving problems an objective attempt to solve rather than lamenting the lack of OTTD’s solution. For example, the signals are getting slammed way harder than they deserve, they do allow for quite a lot of ingenuity already as is.

    #9845
    Maj_Solo
    Participant

    train lines may have many switches but most of the time most of them are never changed out on the line. And they try to assign platforms to lines coming in from various directions so that they have to change as few switches as possible, Most switches are never touched unless somthing unexpected have happened. Most of the time train after train  just swishes by.

    Only at large stations the swiches are used and then it is according to the time table and sending in the same train on the same platform every day.

    This creates safety for the passengers and less stress in the central where they only have to to work a few critical switches.

    If two tracks merge it is possible to drive through the swich from both incoming tracks onto the one track.

    The rail line and the switches are rigged this way to create minimum amount of work. BUT, they do CAN direct trains onto spare tracks in the station using switches and signals. This game just don’t let you specify the platform and you can not send in trains on any spare tracks.

    Only on overcrowded old train stations buried deep into large cities where they can not expand cause there is no room, then they don’t send trains to some spare track, they have to wait out on the line at that stubborn red light.

    Cause imagine a buzy station with a train leaving every 2 minutes, the switches are set for minimum work, And if you have a 110% utilized station with 16 – 20 tracks and you send that train onto a totally new platform there is going to be several sweaty minutes of switching hoping you don’t cause an accident or mess up the time table for the other 16 trains.

    So yeah the train tend roll in on the same platform every day at the same time, or at the same minute every hour … you get the picture.

    Time tables are used with trains as well as for aircraft. It is so that you do not cause any jam out on the line that you can not undo. You are not allowed to leave station, or the airport, unless the computers can see that that hole that was planned for you exist.

    And this is what I like , a time table generating tool. This tool might say you may only leave station 14:23. But WHY?  and you scroll through list of track sections you line uses and then you either some switch further down the line , or a station platform down the line being , lets call it “overbooked”, too many lines are going through there.

    Then you the planning tool might suggest another track or whatever, or tell you it is time to open the wallet and build some track.

    Time table driven train dispacher might sound ultracomplex but I think it is not so hard. But I will die before I see that in a train game. This is how the law works. Either,

    The game works and simulates everything great at highest level, but it looks really crappy. or

    It looks fantastic but works really bad.

     

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