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In that case, the bi-directional loop would work, it does not!
Because it is not doing what you think it should do. If, for whatever reason, a train loses its path, it will attempt to return to it, and in most severa cases, will go into “no path” mode.
Easily chacked if you make a working line, then insert a waypoint which reassigns the path to different trackage. Trains following a particular path will then search for a way to return to it.
Just accept the simple fact. TF is a game in which trains have their own designated route and will do whatever needed to reach it. It is a feature of this game, and a conscious design decision of the devs.
Deadlocks only result on bad designs and dynamic path selection would cause even more of them.
A system in which several ( minimum two ) trains can request sections of trackage occupied by another train. The passing loop you have shown in the first post will ewentually deadlock with 4 or more trains on that particular route.
Pathifinding is a way of finding best path between 2 points, it can work same for TF as it does for OTTD. Lines are system that says where train goes, not how it gets here!
Yes. And in TF all points between which a train needs to find a route are on a Line.
Better than having it standing on the main track blocking all other traffic!
Your inability to design efficient junctions is irrelevant to our discussions. Intrestingly, TF is much more demanding when it comes to junction design then OTTD. This makes it superior to OTTD IMO.
BTW, did OTTD had a waypoints? I can’t remember that I ever needed them.
Kind of. In 2001, or so, new “non-stop” handling was introduced to TTDPatch. Newer handling made trains run “through” a station without stopping ( earlier trains would run to “non-stop” station without stopping anywhere on route ). This made it possible to use 1×1 stations as waypoints. Which TTD needed because pathfinding was terrible in original game.
Later OTTD also used that feature, then added a nice graphic to it and thus added “waypoint” feature. Later NPF and YAPF were introduced which made waypoints kind of moot.
Deadlocks only result on bad designs
I had multiple deadlocks yesterday. All of them on sections of the track i wasn’t even touching. For an unknown reason the game decided that it should the direction of the line on those tracks. I’ve since learned that I need to use more waypoints. After every junction i now include waypoints (by selecting a passing signal which is already there) to prevent the line from switching tracks on me. And that has nothing to do with design. I see no reason why the game would switch them around when I’m messing with another line.
When adding or modding trackwork anywhere of the map you can experience the problem of finding trains running in the reverse direction, on the wrong track, in places far from where the you are working. And if you don’t spot them immediately they cause gridlock, trashing your painfully produced train spacing on any lines that are affected. This can have a painful financial result.
I agree that systematically defining ever line through every junction with waypoints seems to be a practical solution. It’s tedious but is well worth the effort.
It would help if the line path was shown when every way-point is mapped. It currently appears only when a station is mapped! This is an omission that needs to be rectified.
That is an entirely different issue.
If a train loses a path, it will try to find a new one. If, by any chance, finds one which requires a reversal, the train will reverse and if there is a train behind it, it will deadlock with eternal “waiting for new path” since its path is blocked by a train which did not lose its path.
This is annoying because reorganization of a major hub at one place may end up with a pile of deadlocked trains somewhere else.
I _think_, but haven’t checked yet, that this can be remedied by using a one-way signal at the entry of a long stretch of one-way trackage.
A system in which several ( minimum two ) trains can request sections of trackage occupied by another train. The passing loop you have shown in the first post will ewentually deadlock with 4 or more trains on that particular route.
It will not, because opposite direction train will ALWAYS reserve track first.
Just accept the simple fact. TF is a game in which trains have their own designated route and will do whatever needed to reach it. It is a feature of this game, and a conscious design decision of the devs.
Even dealocking, does not look like good design decision to me. If there is another path to next target, train should take it!
TF is much more demanding when it comes to junction design then OTTD. This makes it superior to OTTD IMO.
Supreriory dumb maybe !
U are much more limited on what u can do.
Because it is not doing what you think it should do. If, for whatever reason, a train loses its path, it will attempt to return to it, and in most severa cases, will go into “no path” mode.
Because TF for some absurd reason uses 2 different block statuses
- no path: for cases when there is no physical path to destination -> will keep searching for it
- path blocked: in case there is other train on pre-calculated line -> will not attept to find other path even when there is one
OTTD uses only 1 status, train will ALWAYS search for alternate paths & it will also turn after set time as the last resort to prevent deadlocks
There was also request for priority system, that is not possibile without dynamic path assigment, not the way people want it.
After every junction i now include waypoints (by selecting a passing signal which is already there) to prevent the line from switching tracks on me. And that has nothing to do with design. I see no reason why the game would switch them around when I’m messing with another line.
Because any change to network, be it simple track upgrade, causes global recalculation of all lines using that piece of track. I have already called it a “Russian Roulette”. Alternate paths would help to mitigate this problem too.
Please leave the pathing as it is! I quite like it. Dont change it to anything else! thx
You quite like it how? It’s just like you have two entrances to your house, you jammed your key in the front door lock and you will wait outside in the rain for 5 hours for the locksmith because you’re too stupid to use the back door.
Dynamic pathfinding is the best thing, that way you can use presignals and make it more realistic. At the train station in my city we have 8 tracks diverging for the main double track. Sometimes, when the freight trains are waiting on the tracks 3 through 8 they will move the passenger trains on the empty ones. According to the game rules the passenger trains should wait outside the city and make the people angry because the train is not coming. 🙂
No. According to game rules it follows the typical real life situation. Each train has allocated path in real life and if the platform isn’t free, then it waits. Very rarely they allocate what ever platforms to the trains as that would mess up the schedules. Granted, game doesn’t have schedules but otherwise it is pretty realistic approximation of how things work in real life. Ideally line should be done to each train separately to replicate the real life. That probably don’t work in the game though due to 20 min rule.
Please leave the pathing as it is! I quite like it. Dont change it to anything else! thx
It’s rather “upgrade” than a change.
No. According to game rules it follows the typical real life situation. Each train has allocated path in real life and if the platform isn’t free, then it waits.
Well, in my country, shedules are planned to prevent this, but in case of delays, platforms do get changed. Real stations are controlled by dispatcher, not algorithm, but assigning free track based on reachability of next target is as close as u can get.
Current platform assignment algorithm is about as predictable as quantum physics. Dynamic system will not fix this, but will help to mitigate the consequences.
It’s simple, train will follow the line like it does now, until it goes to “path blocked” mode, which is already indicated by UI. During this mode it will actively search for alteranate path that leads to the next & post-next target to prevent loosing the path in dead end.
Not only will it switch in unforeseen circumstances, trains from the same line can also get assigned different platforms. If the trains run every hour, those at odd hours may be assigned platform X, and those at even hours platform Y. Yes, that’s regularly, but it is not the so-called “realistic” mode of TF. The reason being, of course, that the other platform is occupied at times by other lines.
So, if we’re being “realistic”, switching should occur. As TF trains don’t follow a schedule, we can’t schedule these platform switches, and they have to happen on the fly.
In the end, I can understand if the reasoning behind TF’s behaviour is an internal game-engine-y thing. “Sorry, TF’s line calculation needs fixed platforms at the moment, and changing that requires major work better spent on other fixes ATM.” All fine, even if it isn’t perfect.
But “it’s that way because it’s more realistic”? Sorry, no.
Current system kind of fails because there is no way to schedule trains or even simply space them out, they will always fall into feedback loops(especially passenger ones) that will clump them together one way or another.
But even disregarding all that there is the very real life issue of freight passing trough a pax station without stopping. In my city there’s 2 different routes for trains that don’t stop in the station and just pass trough the city. there’s a single track bypass that’s the fastest way and will be used whenever it’s empty, however quite often there’s another train on it and the freight train has to pass trough the station itself in which case it will pass trough one of the 5 tracks depending on which one is empty at the time.
You’ll find that similar situations happen a lot when lines have intense passenger and freight traffic on them at the same time, pax get the priority and their assigned platforms but freight will pass the stations trough different platforms at different times.
Currently it is undoable in train fever, you end up building a big two lane bypass no matter what, while it works in the game it is not really realistic and it limits your choices/makes your network rather boring.
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