Suggestion: Make industries more complex [German and English Text]

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  • #3159
    Azrael
    Participant

    German Version:

    Hallo Urban Games-Team, was mir über die verschiedenen Minen und Industrien anhand der Beta-Videos auffällt ist, dass es eben nur Minen und deren verarbeitende Industrie gibt, zumindest scheinbar, und diese verarbeitenden Industriewerke einfach nur “Güter” produzieren, die in eine Stadt geschickt werden.

    Ich weiß ja nicht, ob es auf eurer Liste steht, aber da ihr meint, ihr habt euch an verschiedenen Transportmanagementspielen orientiert.
    Sie alle waren verschieden in so einigen Punkten, aber in einem hatten sie eine Gemeinsamkeit:
    Es gab mehr als Minen und Stahlwerke.

    Deshalb, falls es nicht schon auf eurer Liste steht, schlage ich vor, dass Gütersystem komplexer zu gestalten.
    Was bedeutet das konkret in meiner Vorstellung?
    1) Andere Industrien/Firmen als die Montanindustrie.
    Warum gibts keine Agrarindustrie, also z.B. Farmen, die Güter wie Getreide, Kühe, Milch etc. liefern, die dann in Brauereien, Schlachtbetrieben etc. weiterverarbeitet werden zu Gütern wie Fleisch, Bier etc. die wiederum ihren Weg in die Stadt finden?
    Warum gibt es keine Baumfällbetriebe, die Baumstämme liefern, die in Sägemühlen zu Bauholz, Sägespäne etc weiterverarbeitet werden oder in Kartonagen zu Kartons, Papier etc?
    Das Spiel sieht soweit recht gut aus bis eben auf den Industrieteil, der mir erhebliche Sorgen bereitet, ich befürchte eine Einseitigkeit und Varietätslosigkeit bei den Industriegütern und dass letztendlich potenzielle Spieler vergrault werden könnten.
    Die Betriebe, die zurzeit im Gebäudetyp-Filter blau markiert sind in Städten, könnten spezifiert werden zu z.B. Zeitungsverlage, Pkw-Fabriken etc etc. die entsprechende Güter wie Papier, Stahl etc. als Endverbraucher verbrauchen bzw. weiterverarbeiten zu Endgütern wie z.B. Autos, Computern etc die an andere Städte weitergeliefert werden können oder in der selben Stadt verbraucht werden.
    2) Koppelt Stadtwachstum an die Lieferung von Baumaterial.
    In Videos sieht man, dass die Städte sich entwickeln, dass neue Häuser, Straßen etc. gebaut werden.
    Aber dieses Wachstum kommt scheinbar aus dem Nichts, abgesehen vom Zuzug neuer Menschen in eine Stadt.Meine Idee diesbezüglich ist, dass neue Häuser, Industrien, Straßen etc. Bauholz, Stahl, Asphalt etc. benötigen, damit sie überhaupt gebaut werden können.
    Die Städte werden so oder so wachsen, da die Güter, wenn sie nicht vom eigenen Unternehmen befördert werden, von den Betrieben selbst in die Städte transportiert werden, aber so kann man den Stadtausbau aktiv beschleunigen, wenn man die entsprechenden Güter mit den Zügen in die entsprechenden Städte befördert.
    Die Idee könnte man auch ausdehnen auf andere Bereiche z.B. könnte eine Stadt, die genügend Lebensmittel wie Fleisch geliefert bekommt, mehr Einwohner aufnehmen. Sie wird dies früher oder später sowieso tun, da Farmen ja selbst ihr Getreide, Schlachtereien selbst ihr Fleisch liefern, wenn man sich nicht darum kümmert, aber auch hier könnte man das Wachstum der Bevölkerung erhöhen, wenn man den Transport übernimmt.

    English Version for the non-german-speaking users, i just put a german version in for the dev team, because we both are native speakers of the German Language and I can explain my ideas exactly in our common tongue:

    The dev-team orientated themselves on several great transportmanagement titles:
    They had their differences in several points, but they had one thing in common:
    There was more than just the mining industry!

    Thats why I suggest to upgrade the industry system to a more complex one.

    1) More than mining:
    Why is there no for example agricultural industry?
    There could be farms, which provide cows, grain, milk and so on for factories like breweries or butchers who in return produce beer, meat, milk and so on which get delivered to the cities?
    Why is there no logging industry in the forests, which provides tree logs for saw mills to produce wood planks for building sites and sawdust for the paper industry to manufacture paper?
    The Game looks great that far except the Industry part, it looks very bleak there and I fear, that this might become onsided with this simplicity it has right now and maybe ultimatively deter players.
    Also, the industry buildings inside cities, which are colorcoded in blue in the filter option in the game, could be specified to for example media publishers, car factories and so on, which finally consume goods like paper or produce advanced industry goods out of raw material like steel from steel mills, for example cars, who get delivered to another cities then or get consumed in the very same city.

    2) Link city growth to the delivery of building goods.
    In multiple videos you can see, that cities grow and become bigger by themselves, that new houses, streets, industry buildings and so on get build, seemingly out of thin air.
    My idea is, that cities, in order to build new streets and buildings by themselves, need building goods like wood planks, steel, asphalt and so on to be able to actually build buildings and infrastructure.
    The cities will grow eventually, even if you don’t deliver any building goods by yourself, since the industries deliver their goods by themselves if you don’t build railwaystations and so on for the goods transport.
    But you can increase the speed of city growth if you deliver the demanded goods for this.
    You could also expand this idea to other areas of gameplay for example the growth of city population.
    City populations can increase, when they get enough food supplies delivered like milk, meat and so on.
    They will eventually do so, because farms, butchers and so on will deliver their food supplies by themselves but yet again, you can increase the speed of city population growth, if you transport the goods with your railways and transport trucks.

    Mit freundlichen Grüßen / With best regards

    Azrael

    #3176
    douglas
    Participant

    New types of industries can easily be added by modding. Not perfect for people who have no talend to create models, but I hope the community will add a lot of new industries.

    #3177
    Azrael
    Participant

    Sure but, no offense, in my opinion it’s a sign of weakness, if the community has to do the work of the devs in cases, where we talk about standard mechanics/things and imho it is such a standard thing, that there is more than the mining industry in a transportmanagementsimgame.

    But as said, I do hope, they alrdy have this on their to do list, I mean, look around, even OpenTTD and Simu Trans, F2P-Titles with shitty 90’s isometric graphics have multiple industrie branches, it would look terribly bad, if they’re better than a P2P-Title of 25€ worth.

    • This reply was modified 6 years, 11 months ago by Azrael.
    #3179
    douglas
    Participant

    Well you see as a sign of weakness, I see as I very clear sign that the studio is small with low manpower, which clearly is. We cannot expect every aspect of the game to be perfect. Its not Maxis, its Urban Games. (Not that Maxis would do any better, I think they wouldn’t, but certainly they have 100x more money and programmers).

    I think its very clever to allow easy modding. CiM 1 improved so much with mod. I don’t care were the improvement comes from, community or official, its there to use.

    And the fact that TTD have shit graphics only means more time being spent on other things. TF have awesome graphics, so more time was needed to create them. Plus the devs should focus on things we cannot easily create, such as graphics, authentic train sounds, etc. Other things we can do such as modify prices, add new cargo types, etc.

    OpenTTD and Simutrans are entirely created by the community in so so many years. The stated of OpenTTD now wasn’t done in 2 or 3 years, but decades.

    I liked what you suggested on point 1, but the game will be launched in September. This will hardly happen. But I already saw in beta that is possible to create new industries, new wagons, cargo type, icons for each cargo, etc. Even I can create them and I’m far (very far) from having any experience with programming. I just don’t have graphic skills.

    • This reply was modified 6 years, 11 months ago by douglas.
    • This reply was modified 6 years, 11 months ago by douglas.
    • This reply was modified 6 years, 11 months ago by douglas.
    #3183
    Azrael
    Participant

    To be clear, I have no problem with mods, in contrary, I support modability, but imho its the devs job to add standard things.
    Yes, it’s a very good and very smart move to make the game modfriendly, it will keep it alive for many years, look at Mount & Blade Warband, similar situation, a small dev studio with a publisher and a mod friendly game and it still lives and breathes, after 4 years, if you look at the original M&B even 6 years.

    Even if they can’t get it in until release, it doesn’t mean, they shouldn’t work on it at all, in contrary they should and add it after release.

    #3189
    Stonelouse
    Participant

    hi,

    keep in mind that train fever isn’t exactly a mainstream game and is created by 2,5 people. besides the industries there are also a lot of other areas where people would like to see more standard content and options, but with their very limited manpower they simply can’t fullfil everyones wishes. creating an additional industry takes as probably much time as creating and additional locomotive because you have to create the 3d model for it as well.

    i think the devs choose exactly the right approach because while additional content can easily be created by the community itself with mods, gameplay functionality can usually not be changed as easily.
    thus the devs should definately focus on extending functionality, while the community provides additional content.

    thats an area where a lot of other games like cim2 went totally wrong, because no developer can supply ernough content to make everybody happy, because there are so many different locomotives that no matter how many you create, there will still be people who miss their favourite one.

    i’m looking very much forward to creating new industrial branches if that will be possible.

    #3190
    Azrael
    Participant

    I know, that the dev-team is a small one and as I said, I like their work except the little mining industry branch.
    And because of that and because release is only two weeks away, I know, that it won’t be probably in until release, but thats not a problem for me.
    It would become a problem, if they say “No, adding additional industry branches are not planned” but i highly doubt it.
    I even don’t know, if they alrdy have this on their to do list.
    I just wanna make sure, that the first good and appealing transport management game for several years has the buyers to support the devs, because for a 2-3 men team they did a very good job, a better one that some 100 men dev-teams accomplish.
    And for that fact, because we’re not living in a fairy tales world, people will talk bad about the game, if it misses out such a huge standard thing like diverse industry.
    I dunno, if you know the steam community hubs, I guess you do, but they’re not that friendly there like we are here in the forum and they also write reviews, if they’re dedicated enough.

    So pls don’t missunderstand my suggestion as unfair criticism.

    #3191
    Stonelouse
    Participant

    by the way, from what i gather from the videos there is not just the mining industry. there is also oil and wood, which is not much but at least they did include freight, which was not even planned in the beginning. they only did this after the community asked for it and despite that they created a really nice framework for freight i think.

    i’m also very interested in a broad range of freight transport, but at this stage i think there are much more important areas that should be improved or extended.

    #3301
    Azrael
    Participant

    Ich push des mal

    I push this thread

    #3336
    NeighborKid
    Participant

    I would like to see trains load their cargo, example- A port has cranes that load the stack or double stacks onto flatbeds/ intermodule cars. I would like to see that in game, not just stuff getting stocked up on a platform and then disappears when the train arrives.

    I’d also like the ability to drop certain freight at certain locations.

    #3345
    GeoffersH
    Participant

    Let’s not be ambitious at this stage, the game has not been released yet. From little acorns, mighty oaks do grow. I am sure the small dev team would like to add more different types of industry and no doubt these will be incorporated in future updates. The main object at the moment is to get it published, so everyone can see what the best way forward might be to improve on the game. And if it can be improved by additional creations made by the community, then more industry and other developments could be built, like airports and docks, for instance.

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