[suggestion] Remove Full Load Order, Implemet Load for X Seconds order

Home Forums General Discussion [suggestion] Remove Full Load Order, Implemet Load for X Seconds order

Viewing 15 posts - 1 through 15 (of 17 total)
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  • #14448
    uzurpator
    Participant

    It is quite evident that ‘full load’ orders given to vehicles of any kind are a trap leading to many angry people.

    The reason is simple. If it takes more then about 80% of time of frequency to load vehicle, then a downward spiral of vanishing production will start.

    Therefore, I suggest to:

    1. Remove full load order

    2. Wherenver used, replace it with load for X seconds, where X is calculated as no more then 75% of base line frequency.

    3. Introduce a player controlled “Load for X seconds” order for vehicles.

    This solution will give players an option to space some trains by hand, provide a safe negative feedback to frquency altering problems, and would solve “my industries do not produce anything!!111” issues.

    #14449
    LB
    Participant

    No, instead, they should remove the 20 minute limit. Especially for cargo. I use full load quite successfully all the time.

    #14450
    Partyschreck
    Participant

    Play Simutrans to use a intelligent loading time mechanic.

    Spacing trains and other vehicles is easy that way and they will wait in the right moments (waiting for passengers), instead of this silly autospacing mechanic in TF.Haven´t the developers looked at such games, before they tried to ruin the genre ?

    Most of the other mechanics are better, too and the game is freeware.

    #14452
    uzurpator
    Participant

    LB:  Load for ( over 9000 hours ) and leave when fully loaded = full load as it is now. No features lost, some features gained. New players not baited into difficult full load mechanic. Profit.

    Partyschreck: Then go play simutrans. Been there, done that when Hajo was still developing it. This board is about TF. EDIT: Ifact that for a long time pak32 had a few sprites drawn by me.

    • This reply was modified 6 years, 12 months ago by uzurpator.
    #14454
    Partyschreck
    Participant

    This board is about TF.

    We´re are writing about Train Fever in the german simutrans forum, too.

    And what you can read there, is that I tried to like Train Fever in the beginning, but I got angry, when I saw that they did nearly everything worse and I paid money for that. Simutrans got much better in the last years, so maybe you should look again.

    About the full load mechanic in Train Fever: If you balance the number of vehicles good you can use it, without problems and it spaces the vehicles. I used it at least at the starting of a line (especially cargo).
    But certainly uzurpators suggestion is a good one.
    I would do it as in Simutrans.

    #14458
    Tattoo
    Participant

    This is one of the dumbest ideas I heard yet.

    #14468
    gGeorg
    Participant

    Full load is great in case you have a mine/facory producing 200plus material.  Why? Truck station could hold only 18 pcs. Those are filled up in a blink of an eye. If there is not a car, then material is wasted. For this reason is wise to use full load, so you can have a car ALWAYS waiting for loading. So no material is wasted.

    #14493
    Dolph
    Participant

    Well, that is a strange thing as well.. Why would a cargo station only be able to hold cargo for nearly one truck? Doesn’t really make sense to me.

    On the topic though, wouldn’t it be nice to also have the option make the trucks load until a certain percentage is reached? In conjunction with normal full load and a time limited full load, it would make it more versatile and easier to tailor the loading to your own plans and demands. Versatility FTW!

    #14507
    gGeorg
    Participant

    Dolph,

    request for “no more then 75% of base line frequency” has very good reason. It eliminates greatest danger of the total stop of the line. Your idea “trucks load until a certain percentage” does not solve it.

    #14511
    Partyschreck
    Participant

    Waiting for load to a certain percentage is a very good mechanic in passenger transport instead.

    #14518
    uzurpator
    Participant

    We´re are writing about Train Fever in the german simutrans forum, too.

    I might have been to harsh. But considering the current ‘TF is crap, even stack of bricks is better’ attitude on this forum, I fill kind of excused 🙂

    And what you can read there, is that I tried to like Train Fever in the beginning, but I got angry, when I saw that they did nearly everything worse and I paid money for that. Simutrans got much better in the last years, so maybe you should look again.

    I paid $30 for the abomination called ‘Thief’ recently. I loved the previous three games in that series. The thing is, that you don’t get the guarantee that you are going ot be happy with your purchase. TF delivered what it supposed to deliver. You didnn’t like the dev’s interpretation of those features, that is it. Granted, it is a rough game, but that is why I make suggestions.

    As for trying Simu – I have played sprite based games for 15 years. I want pretty graphics on top of that. It is more likely that TF will get a decent gameplay core ( which is quite robust even now ) then Simu or OpenTTD getting a modern 3D engine.

    BTW – I don’t deny that TF has problems, and performance is one of them.

    About the full load mechanic in Train Fever: If you balance the number of vehicles good you can use it, without problems and it spaces the vehicles. I used it at least at the starting of a line (especially cargo).

    If you do that, you do not need Full Load. The usage of full load is to provide a synchronisation primitive and giving you info about line performace. It is supposed to work in a way, that if you ‘Full Load’ a train, and you see a string of trains behind it, then you have too many trains on that line.

    Now I have to follow secondary charateristics of the line to determine amount of rolling stock needed.

    Say – If I have industry with 200 production per year ( a year is 10 minutes, afair ), then I have to install 200 capacity per annum. So with 5 minute frequency each train has to have 100 capacity. On average, this will assure that most rains are 90%+ full.

    This estimation works, but it is too much micromanagement. This limits amount of trains you can use. I top at about 50-60.

    I would do it as in Simutrans.

    How does it work in Simu? I am genuinely curious.

    • This reply was modified 6 years, 11 months ago by uzurpator.
    #14521
    Partyschreck
    Participant

    If you do that, you do not need Full Load.

    You can use fewer vehicles, if you use full load, because they are working more effectively and they are better spaced out. But these systems are extremly unsteady and small problems are getting bigger very fast. At least you have to check such lines steadily, not much fun.

    that. It is more likely that TF will get a decent gameplay core ( which is quite robust even now ) then Simu or OpenTTD getting a modern 3D engine.

    The chances are equally low. I want a game that leads to complex networks and that´s simutrans.

    How does it work in Simu? I am genuinely curious.

    You can set two parameters there at a station.

    1. Percentage

    2. Waiting time

    The vehicles will go if they have enough load or after the given time.

    For example:

    My bus lines in Simutrans get a 50% number and are waiting half a day (Simutrans time) at one stop (important transfer stop) of a line. That´s a perfect autospace function and if it doesn´t work as you want, you alter the numbers. To choose good waiting values in Simutrans is a very intelligent gameplay mechanic to let your vehicles work effectively.

    • This reply was modified 6 years, 11 months ago by Partyschreck.
    • This reply was modified 6 years, 11 months ago by Partyschreck.
    • This reply was modified 6 years, 11 months ago by Partyschreck.
    #14527
    uzurpator
    Participant

    The chances are equally low. I want a game that leads to complex networks and that´s simutrans.

    My network in TF is quite complex 🙂

    It is still away from full staturation of services though.

    Anyhow. What TF lacks are some usability features and removal of some annoyances. What I suggest here is one of them.

    As for including percent of loaded capacity as one of the departure conditions. I am all for it. It would be a great feature.

    Basically – remove “Full Load” and include “Load for X seconds or up to Y% any/all capacity” defaulting to “Load for 75% of frequency or up to 100% any capacity”.

    #14534
    gGeorg
    Participant

    remove “Full Load” and include “Load for X seconds or up to Y% any/all capacity” defaulting to “Load for 75% of frequency or up to 100% any capacity”.

    Switch “any/all” has sense for cargo stations only. It could be omitted for passenger’s stations.

    Setting “Load for 1 seconds or up to 0% capacity” makes a vehicle stop, load 2 units of 100 available and go.

    Statement should rather be “Wait for load X seconds or … ” which means stop there, try load/unload, then wait for X seconds for more, if nothing happen go.

    Setting to trivial – “Wait for load 0 seconds or or up to 0% capacity”” would make a pass station, usable as a waypoint for cars. One of the requested features.

    +1 Grrreat feature. Doable. Understandable. Close to reality. I am voting for it both hands.

     

    • This reply was modified 6 years, 11 months ago by gGeorg.
    #14536
    simonmd
    Participant

    Things like this always make me wonder. If the ‘full load’ order mucks up the line and industry production……. WHY IS IT IN THE GAME???????? It’s just ANOTHER example of the fact that this is little more than a Beta version and the devs did not think it through or test it properly. If this was a product that was on a shelf in a store, you would be justified in taking it back and getting a refund, however, at the moment we have to put up with frustrating things like this.

    The ‘full load order’ is a classic example of how the Devs just rushed this through without giving it proper thought. It is FAR more efficient to have a full train make one trip then sending a train with 1 or 2 items several times, yet the game thinks the later should be the way to do it, CRAZY!

    Oh well, you know what I’m going to do now?  Deep breath…….. count to ten……….. reload TF for ANOTHER game!

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