Switches, crossings and signals

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  • #4681
    CrunchyBiscuit
    Participant

    Hey there!

    I also posted this on the Steam forums, since I was unable to post here on the official forums at the time due to a forum mail glitch (couldn’t create an account). Been looking forward to the release of this game for months! Glad it has finally arrived.

    Unfortunately, as an avid Transport Tycoon, OpenTTD and Simutrans player, I find some things rather lacking. Maybe I’m just overlooking things or not used to this game yet, but it seems like I am unable to build any of the more complex stuff I used to be able to build in the aforementioned games.

    Firstly, I’m having a really hard time making a simple roro-station, see example below (right click and select ‘show image’ or something like that to view the non-squished version).

    The grey area is a station, the small house at the bottom is the depot. The layout so far consists of a simple one way track, leading to a split with two one way tracks entering the station.

    For some reason the blue train just absolutely refuses to pick track B when the yellow train is loading at track A. It’s very stubborn like that. I think I’ve exhausted every possible combination of signals. In examples 7 and 8 the blue train refuses to leave the depot at all. In OpenTTD, I used block-, pre-, entry- and exit-signals in this situation, but in this game I’m only able to build path signals and they don’t seem to understand what I’m trying to achieve. What am I overlooking? Any suggestions?

    The signals in use are one-way only, I tried turning them around but clearly that didn’t work either. I’m not sure how to make a simple roro-station in this game. I hoped the system would resemble OpenTTD, but seemingly it doesn’t.

    Secondly, I can’t figure out how to make railway tracks cross, as seen in the example below.

    I’ve been struggling with this all day, but it seems like the game just won’t let me build this way. However, I can’t imagine this is intended behavior, as it would really make many, many neat and realistic looking track layouts simply impossible to build.

    So far, despite my enthusiasm, I’m actually kinda disappointed with the game. It looks rather dull (trains look great though, locomotive mechanics look really neat), there is no weather system that I can see, nor a day and night cycle. Performance isn’t great. There’s no multiplay nor are there any advanced land generation options. There also aren’t many industry types and I can’t build boats or airplanes. On top of that, it now seems I can’t even build railways the way I had imagined and there’s no waypoints to help out either (never needed them before in comparable games, but this time they could actually come in handy).

    I guess it’s back to OpenTTD 🙁 Very happy with the soundtrack though! Trailerpark and Rumble Tracks are really good, and the intro of Big Boss will give all TTD players a sense of nostalgia 🙂

    • This topic was modified 6 years, 4 months ago by CrunchyBiscuit. Reason: Typos, added text
    #4686
    gax
    Participant

    I can feel your pain. But i am sure these problems will be solved very soon. We waited for so many years for a new game  like TTD and/or RRT to come out, i guess we will survive just a little longer.

    #4687
    Morat
    Participant

    “For some reason the blue train just absolutely refuses to pick track B”

    It looks like the line picks a fixed route that includes the track it wants to use in a multi-track station, rather than treating the station as a special case where it could pick from the accessible platforms. If you open the routes dialogue and look at the track highlighting through a multi-track station you’ll notice that the line goes through one of the tracks only. I haven’t been able to get a train to use another free platform at the station no matter what I do.

    This is a huge issue when you have more than one line sharing the station, because they will both pick the shortest path through and will invariably want to share the same platform. The only way I’ve found around this is to create multiple stations and explicitly have one line assigned to one specific station.

    I haven’t tested whether this is the case for multi-lane passing points. If it is then they won’t work either.

    It looks like this is a basic pathfinding problem due to the the route for the line being fixed at route level. Trains don’t seem to be able to deviate from this route in the way that you’d expect them to around stations.

    • This reply was modified 6 years, 4 months ago by Morat.
    #4700
    theuros
    Participant

    I agree that this issue should be fixed asap …

    I was afraid that Train Fever won’t surpass the OpenTTD in gameplay .. and this is one case.

    #4710
    Stonelouse
    Participant

    please explain what the orange train is supposed to do in the station, when the yellow train hasn’t even finished loading?

    if a train has to wait because another train on the same line and travelling the same direction is already occupying the station, then you either have too many trains on the line or your trains are not spread out yet and deliberately have to wait.

    if trains would bunch up and then just choose another platform you might end up having three platforms blocked by three trains of the same line, all waiting for loading and your other two lines that need to go into the station can’t even use the station.

    what you are trying to achieve is neither prototypical nor makes any sense, so don’t compare it to openttd. TF is not openttd, obviously some stuff will work differently and you have to get used to it. what is a roro-station supposed to be?

    in this case there is no bug or lack of feature (the only thing lacking is waypoints, but they’re on their way), you’re simply doing it wrong.

    and if you want different lines to use different platforms, then at this time until we get waypoints you have to seperate them by signals and track layout. that is a lack of feature indeed but will be changed very soon.

    • This reply was modified 6 years, 4 months ago by Stonelouse.
    • This reply was modified 6 years, 4 months ago by Stonelouse.
    #4717
    HedgeHog
    Participant

    Stonelouse: What? Orange train? There is only yellow train and blue train. Yellow train is loading on platform A, platform B is free to use and blue train is refusing to go to the platform B. Happened to me few minutes ago and I would like to know, how to solve this.

    #4719
    theuros
    Participant

    If three lines with multiple trains goes to one station, trains should use any empty platforms if available…

    And…. Train Fever and OpenTTD can be compared because are very similar….  OpenTTD offers you to build complex layouts and advanced signal management…. this is a feature used in real world .. OpenTTD .. but not in Train Fever yet..

     

    • This reply was modified 6 years, 4 months ago by theuros.
    #4743
    disconnect
    Participant

    My biggest disappointment next to the fixed platform usage is this:

    The passing loops work like on the picture in TF. Each track should have one direction, also the signaling looks unrealistic.

    In OpenTTD you could do the realistic layout, and both tracks could be used in both directions.

     

    In OpenTTD i was using 2 type of signals:

    -one directional path signal which can be passed from both directions, but affected only those trains that come from the signals’s direction, to make uni directional tracks.

    – one directional path signal, with passing restriction (only can be passed from the signal direction, but not from the other direction), to make one way tracks.

    With these two signals you could do any layout with efficient track usage.

    The problem is, the first type is missing, instead you have a signal that can be passed from both directions, but affects trains coming from both directions, there is no such thing in reality, as it’s useless.

    Implementing that signal would make TF work like OpenTTD… but the best would be, if TF would have a deadlock processing algorithm, that looks the path not just until the next signal, but the next possibility of passing the other train, which would make possible to make multiple signal blocks on single tracks between the passing loops.

    • This reply was modified 6 years, 4 months ago by disconnect.
    • This reply was modified 6 years, 4 months ago by disconnect.
    #4746
    Andu
    Participant

    Hold on guys, Stonelouse might have a point here…

    CrunchyBiscuit, in your example are the yellow and blue train running on the same line? In real life, at least around here where I live, there are never two trains on the same line active at the same time in the same station. It would not make much sense; which train should the passengers board?

    I know this was possible in OTTD but there the concept of line is different and  as far as I understand, trains travelling on the same route have no knowledge of each other and this is why they often end up in the same station at the same time.

    Now, if blue and yellow are two different lines, there might be a problem… I haven’t reached such a scenario yet.

     

     

    #4751
    HedgeHog
    Participant

    Andu: Yes, there is a problem, imagine this track:

    (ORE MINE station) ———- (Two platform station near STEEL WORKS) ———– (COAL MINE station)

    I have Line 1 – from ore mine to the steel mill, Line 2 – from coal mine to the steel mill. Train1 from Line 1 arrived at platform A to the Steel Works station, Train2 arrived to the station from the other side, but didn’t go to free platform B, but was waiting until train1 was unloaded.

    Now imagine, that I want to send there train3 for goods to deliver them to the nearby city. Train3 is waiting (until full) on platform A and trains 1 and 2 refuse to go to free platform B and are waiting from both sides of the station and blocking Train3… Why they don’t go to platform B? Mystery.

    #4782
    Andu
    Participant

    HedgeHog, now it happened to me too! What I did was to remove the station from the stop list and add it again. The line was then assigned to another platform. I assume that when you add a station, some algorithm decides which platform works best given the set of all the other lines going through that station. Make sure that all platforms are reachable. The colored line shown when you place stops will indicate exactly which platform the line will be using. Give it a try, see if it helps!

    #4800
    Azrael
    Participant

    I agree, that we should be able to manually designate platforms to train and that they should be able to pick a free platform by themselves, if their standard one is blocked.
    The switch types you asked for aren’t in (yet), they’ll come eventually.

    #4811
    Tumb
    Participant

    The different lines using different platforms thing definitely should be kept as it is realistic.  The passengers gather and wait on the platform for the line they planned, so if trains picked free platforms it would create a mess with all the passengers moving between different platforms in a busy station.

    • This reply was modified 6 years, 4 months ago by Tumb.
    #4832
    Jirnsum
    Participant

    I was running into this problem as well, and after careful reading of the guidance on signals, I think I am starting to get it. I think in the situation above, you need picture 5, but with the signals on the other side of the track. That way the yellow train is blocked from coming into the depot, and the blue train will pull into the station.

    #4880
    CrunchyBiscuit
    Participant

    please explain what the orange train is supposed to do in the station, when the yellow train hasn’t even finished loading?

     

    Loading as well (might be multiple resources, in my case there are actually a third and a fourth train, two for passengers, one for ore, one for goods, same route), or maybe even passing (although I would usually build a seperate track for that). Keep in mind that the examples I made only show the problem area, not the entire track, nor the exits. Depot placement is also not how it looks, but I just drew it like that for simplification.

     

    if trains would bunch up and then just choose another platform you might end up having three platforms blocked by three trains of the same line, all waiting for loading and your other two lines that need to go into the station can’t even use the station.

     

    This is actually the scenario I both expected and wanted, like in Transport Tycoon (trains are free to pick and choose lanes at stations). I always make sure that there are enough free lanes for a pass, I’m used at building this way.

     

    what you are trying to achieve is neither prototypical nor makes any sense, so don’t compare it to openttd. TF is not openttd, obviously some stuff will work differently and you have to get used to it. what is a roro-station supposed to be?

     

    Your tone seems a bit off somehow, like you’re annoyed. Excuse me for thinking this was like OpenTTD (it’s not like this game didn’t get advertised everywhere for being exactly that – Transport Tycoon with better graphics. Then I heard the Big Boss tune, which strengthened that view). But I see the error of me expecting this game to work in the same fashion.

    A RoRo Station is both fun, practical and prototypical (well, maybe not in this game)! This method of rail construction got applied very often in OpenTTD and Simutrans – example below.

     

    in this case there is no bug or lack of feature (the only thing lacking is waypoints, but they’re on their way), you’re simply doing it wrong.

     

    I never mentioned a bug and was under the impression I was overlooking something, as should be obvious from my post. For me doing it wrong, well I can totally accept that. I assumed this game would work like OpenTTD, which it obviously does not.

    I see the point about lines. Trains sharing the same line will apparently only accept the station lane designated to that line, so I should make multiple lines (even though all trains share the same route) if I want two trains coming in from the same direction loading at the same station at the same time using different lanes.

    I think what a large part of the community wants (and expected, at least I know I did), is literally an OpenTTD remake with better sounds and graphics (same mechanics, but not grid based). Simple.

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