# Higher Cargo Rates

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• #19658
Mike
Participant

@douglas sorry but the number of trains does make a difference! It shortens the wait time on station. Total travel time includes waiting time on a station.

Let’s take the worst example: 30 km line, 1 train, an Oil canister arrived on a station right after the train left.
Train takes 10 minutes to reach the Oil Refinery. How long Oil canister will wait for the train to return? 20 minutes! Plus 10 minutes for the trip, Total travel time – 30 minutes. Not good at all.
Now let’s add a second train: Oil canister will wait 10 minutes. Plus 10 minutes to reach the Refinery -> almost there!
Now let’s add 2 more trains: the closest returning train is only 5 minutes away! Total travel time – 15 minutes.
Problem solved.
So frequency directly impacts total travel time. I’m not guessing, I’m doing this in the game.

BTW we’re not discussing our points of view here, someone has a problem of creating a long line with long trains. And I just gave a solution. If you don’t believe it, just try it! I swear no cheats or magic tricks.

#19662
douglas
Participant

It doesn’t. What matter is the amount of time the materials goes out of the mine or factory, walks it self to the station. Then picked up and the whole travel time to the next station, then walk it self rom the station to the factory or city.

The travel time is the same, no matter how frequently you pick the material, the travel time cannot be decreased, only with faster trains.

P.S.: Yes, what you said. I’m just thinking ahead. When number of trains doesn’t matter anymore because distance is too far. And for that, distance doesn’t need to be that long. That is what it bother me. Plus if you increase frequency to try to reach TTT under 20 min, is when you have train with few wagons.

• This reply was modified 6 years, 2 months ago by douglas.
#19667
Mike
Participant

Douglas it seems like you still don’t believe me. I’ll make a sample “long-line-long-trains” and post the video.
But it’s awesome the game generates so many different experiences!

#19672
douglas
Participant

Well I would love such video. And I will try what you said. I really want to go back playing. And have you tried cargo mod? I like it because it adds complex chains for cargo. But I never manage to have a working line for more than a year.

Also one thing that probably ruins my lines and its related to the 20 min rule (OMG I hate that rule), is that I build my map as a network. So the tracks from industries most of the time connect to a huge hub of other lines. So I have a bulk track of 4 or 5 tracks with trains running north and south. And most of the time I only duplicate when really necessary. So there are some waiting time at connections. Waiting time probably is the one that ruins my setup.

But a busy network is much nicer to look at than exclusive tracks for each train.

#19676
Norfolk_Chris
Participant

The 20min rule is not appropriate for freight, and it could usefully be changed.  Commodities (coal, iron ore, oil and timber) are not perishable; the time allowed for their transport should either be drastically increased, or  exempted from the rule altogether.

This would allow long distance haulage of these in long, less frequent freight trains.

I think this small mod would positively improve the gameplay.  (This would enable the use of the many large freight locos that that are now available.  I have not so far found any useful application for them.)

#19677
Mike
Participant

Well guys, thanks to you I just did two things I would never do:

– fall in love with long trains
– made my first ever “kinda-tutorial” video 🙂

So here are the stats of my test:

– Yes in TF you can have a profitable maximum-length cargo line with 20+ wagon trains
– I can confirm the 20-minutes rule includes the waiting time on a station
– Trip time from corner to corner on a biggest map is about 9 minutes @120 km/h
– 25-wagon train with \$1.2M loco becomes profitable starting from 10% load
– only 2 trains are sufficient to start the production

Sorry for the crappy quality (filmed the screen with the phone) and lotsa trainspotting, but I hope it will help you explore the new possibilities in the game (it did for me!). Tech stuff in the beginning, financials at the end.

Here’s the vid:

Cheers!

#19682
imajor
Participant

Also one thing that probably ruins my lines and its related to the 20 min rule (OMG I hate that rule), is that I build my map as a network. So the tracks from industries most of the time connect to a huge hub of other lines. So I have a bulk track of 4 or 5 tracks with trains running north and south. And most of the time I only duplicate when really necessary. So there are some waiting time at connections. Waiting time probably is the one that ruins my setup.

But a busy network is much nicer to look at than exclusive tracks for each train.

Exactly my thoughts. And the 20 minute rule encourages you to do the opposite, create a dedicated track for each train, and put the stations close to the source/target to minimize the traveling time.

Here’s the vid:

Sorry Mike, but your video just convinced me that long cargo trains are not working in TF. Was that train loaded at 10%? So only two wagons had something in them, the other 20 wagons are only decoration? I understand that the line makes profit, but if the wagons are just empty decoration then that doesn’t really make me happy. Did you play other similar games? Where you have a bit complex network, and you start more and more long cargo trains to handle the demand, and the huge stations and the tracks are full of these long FULL trains delivering cargo? That is the experience I’m looking for.

#19684
Mike
Participant

Hi guys,
OMG how I understand you. That’s exactly how I felt after first hours of playing TF.
After playing TTD and Locomotion in the past I had the exact disappointment you’ve got now. But somehow I forced myself to love this game, maybe because of lack of competition, or admiration of the idea, job and realization done by 5 Swiss guys.

Train Fever is not compatible with both things you’d like – a network, and fully loaded cargo trains. I’m not even sure why they put “wait for full load” option! If train waits, production drops.
When I tried to build a shared network, trains stuck, intervals became unequal, efficiency drastically dropped. The best way here is to have a dedicated track for each line.

It really depends on a person. If you want to accept the things as they are, or if you want to look for workarounds, or you don’t accept.

I’m a developer myself, and seeing how things are done I can say it will need a TREMENDOUS amount of development to alter the train navigation system and separate passenger and cargo principles (for the moment they are the same).

But @imajor, there is a workaround if you want fully loaded trains – modify wagons capacity, create (or duplicate existing) wagons, for different stages of production. OK game sucks this part, but these difficulties could make things funnier? And anyways, when the production will raise even my 25-wagon train will become fully-loaded, and more trains will be necessary…

And after all, seeing these trains roll, on a beautiful landscape, makes me forget all other issues..

Cheers

#19685
imajor
Participant

But  @imajor, there is a workaround if you want fully loaded trains – modify wagons capacity, create (or duplicate existing) wagons, for different stages of production.

Yes, that is a workaround. Let me know if you find where I can override the 20 minute rule, and then I will happily return to this game. I also loved to watch the trains moving on the landscape.

#19686
douglas
Participant

Thank you for the video and the effort, but indeed the game needs tweaks to work really well. Increase cargo station capacity and remove 20 min rule for cargo. That unfortunately cannot be done with mods. Not even the best modder can do that.

Gwinda told me he will talk to the devs to see if they can expose the 20 min rule for modding. Lets hope.

#19687
Mike
Participant

Hm.. I’m pretty sure this constant can be hacked in the executable, but I’m afraid this is a backbone of the game logic, and it will terribly disbalance everything if removed and will make the game uninteresting. Any natural competition will disappear. People will wait forever at the bus stops, cargo will not lose its value, 3000 people at a station…

Much more stuff needs to be done rather than just removing 20 min rule..

#19688
douglas
Participant

I’m not sure the cargo lose its value. This is no RRT2. 🙂

#19696
Mike
Participant

😀 lol that’s an oldie! 🙂

By the way, I think the “Contract” scheme would be the fastest, plausible and feasible solution:
– you “sign a contract” with an industry
– industry starts production (volume still depending on goods demand)
– all cargo is dedicated to your line: no 20 min, wait forever on stations, etc.
– you pay penalties for every minute cargo spent waiting

I think this plan can be implemented without huge development time.
What do you think?

#19697
douglas
Participant

I like your proposition, but change 20 min is easier than do that, as the way you want require change 20 min rule plus add all contract UI and programming to work. I would be happy just with 20 min rule exposed to modding.

#19885
Tossi
Participant

Hi people! Long time no see. I was reading how some of you claim that long trains don’t work in Train Fever. How there is no use for full-load order. How you can’t have networks. I call this all bull****. Here I made you a video. Watch it and learn how very wrong you were.

https://youtu.be/BxL-XHGIxzg

Btw how do you put youtube video in like that?

• This reply was modified 6 years, 2 months ago by Tossi.
• This reply was modified 6 years, 2 months ago by Tossi.
• This reply was modified 6 years, 2 months ago by Tossi.
• This reply was modified 6 years, 2 months ago by Tossi.
• This reply was modified 6 years, 2 months ago by Tossi.
Viewing 15 posts - 31 through 45 (of 59 total)
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