Impossible to build overtaking sections?

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  • #6737
    Morat
    Participant

    In that other train game it’s possible to build an overtaking track section that allows a faster train to reserve the track ahead of a slower one and overtake it. This is achieved using just the standard signals.

    With the ‘fixed route for a line’ approach of TF this seems to be another thing that can’t be built. I know we might get waypoints, but I don’t want to have to assign a waypoint to every possible overtaking section to move freight to a slow lane, that would be a complete nightmare to manage.

    Do the devs know if we’re ever going to get any capability for trains to pick alternate paths to allow these kinds of network features to be built?

     

    #6796
    pantner
    Participant

    I would think you could do it here as well, just need a long enough section of track and the signals in the right spot.

    Though, I haven’t tried it.

    #6819
    jimutt
    Participant

    Well I can’t comment on whether it’s possible or not. But I do believe that would be very nice and a quite important feature as trains do that all the time in real life.

    #6839
    mackintosh
    Participant

    No, it is not possible to do this the way things are done now. Not with just path signals and that’s all we have. In fact, having slower freight trains being overtaken by passenger trains is detrimental and counterproductive. The game doesn’t differentiate between bulk cargo, FMCGs and the consumers themselves. It’s all the same 20 minute agent. Freight is just as time dependent as the very passengers you want to prioritise.

    This is my top pet peeve about TF right after the lack of waypoints and the ability to choose platforms.

    #6850
    Yeol
    Participant

    Paths seem a core concept in the game’s path-finding system. For the moment we’re stuck with fixed paths, chosen at best effort by the system. Take it as a challenge to get things done using the current handicaped “path”-system.

    But I believe (hope) that we will gradually see improvements added to the path-system:

    1. waypoints (e.g. platform choosing, track bundel usage,…)
    2. alternative paths (eg stations, overtaking,…)
    3. elaborated signaling system (block signals, entry and exit signals,..)

    Although I think it is not essential for enjoyable gameplay, it will be nice to have these extra options.

    #6851
    pantner
    Participant

    sorry for the “paint job” but I thought something like this would’ve worked?

    blue arrow is the slow train, the red/yellow arrow is the fast train and the yellow squares are signals.

    Assuming there is enough time, the fast train should be able to go onto the top section of track?

    You might need to adjust the placement of the signals, am not 100% sure, but I would expect it to work.

    No?

    *Edit – I broke the photo/thumbnail somehow… There should be a second “arrow” (indicating the fast train) off the right side of the pic.

    • This reply was modified 7 years, 11 months ago by pantner. Reason: fixed pic
    • This reply was modified 7 years, 11 months ago by pantner.
    #6856
    Yeol
    Participant

    It will not work. A path is fixed, and for the moment trains will follow that path dutifully. If the following section is occupied, it will wait until it’s free again. No alternative path will be used.

    We’ll have to be patient for the developers to have the time to put some effort in it. Until then we need to live the fixed paths.

    #6858
    Morat
    Participant

    It’s all the same 20 minute agent.

    That’s true, and it’s actually rather perverse. You have industries sitting on the map doing nothing but waiting to be hooked up to customers, but if you give them a line that’s too long they’ll stubbornly sit there at zero production. Who owns those businesses that are sitting there doing nothing?

    On the other hand, sometimes you have symbiotic industries that just happen to be sitting next to each other so your map will show that a forest just happens to be supplying a sawmill which is sending goods to a nearby town. In these circumstances it’s very difficult to ‘capture’ these goods onto a line to another town because the industry naturally prefers the shorter road route to the local town – only by putting enough trains on the line to reduce frequency can you compete, and even then if the line is short enough that the travel time is low.

    I suspect that once a town’s demand is satisfied the industry will upgrade if you’ve made other demand sinks available via lines, but that takes a significant amount of time during which your line and trains are sitting there costing money with nothing to carry. The game needs a system where industries can indicate that they would like to have a line to a particular destination to give you a clue as to where there is demand to satisfy.

    #6904
    Highspeed
    Participant

    I Think the idea of panter can work if we modify it:

    What about leaving off the signal of the fast track?

    The slow train reserves the path to its signal, the following fast train is waiting at a previous signal until the slow train enters the bottom track. Then the fast train will reserverve a possible route to the next signal/station behind the double track area and the slow train waits at its signal.

    I haven’t tried it out but I will do.

    If you want I can post a picture to illustrate what I wanted do explain.

    #6905
    Yeol
    Participant

    I fear it will not work. Trains will not leave their path, and a path is only changed when a path is broken (eg track section has been bulldozed). Signals or track occupation do not alter path flows. At least, I never saw it happen.

    #6906
    Morat
    Participant

    I Think the idea of panter can work if we modify it:

    What about leaving off the signal of the fast track?

    It won’t matter, because the route trains take on a line is absolutely fixed at a line level. If you open the lines dialog and take a look at the routes highlighted on the track, those are the routes the trains will take no matter what. If the line ahead of a train is utterly deadlocked it will not take an available alternative path if the line definition says it needs to go through the deadlock.

    #6914
    Nique
    Participant

    It would be more natural to have it like this:

     

     

    The only problem here is: We can’t set waypoints for the slow train. The only workaround is to add a station at the slow track and let the slow train stop there.

    #6919
    mackintosh
    Participant

    This again takes us back to the notion of there not being “slow” trains. It’s the same agent that handles passengers. Coal, oil, people, they’re just names for cargo that have absolutely no bearing on how the engine treats its urgency. All cargo is created equal.

    Another possible workaround to have “slow” trains being bypassed by “fast” trains is to use diesels for “slow” trains and run a non-electrified track parallel to the mainline.

    • This reply was modified 7 years, 11 months ago by mackintosh.
    #6927
    Nique
    Participant

    The whole ‘agent’ thing is not important. Thats just inner workings of the game and thats fine and all. What it is a about  is the visual representation. Even if they are all equal agents.. you have fast and slow trains. High priority trains and low priority trains. Just for visual and (logical) representation. So waypoints or at least some kind of priority levels are a must in a game like this.

    #6934
    mackintosh
    Participant

    Agreed if all one cares about is looks. The point I’m driving however is that in reality there is no difference whatsoever between so-called “fast” and “slow” trains other than visual, because this game doesn’t prioritise cargo, unlike its predecessors such as the RRT series. All it cares about is time. Your job basically boils down to having as many units on your line as possible and that’s what is so infuriating.

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