September 11, 2014 at 16:06 #7319disconnectParticipant
Emeg your layout isn’t an answer for any problems, actually it shows the same that the people don’t like, the fixed paths. You have two lines that use two different platforms. But what we want is to be able to use multiple different platforms for ONE line, dynamically, (and multiple paths between two locations), openTTD can do this, TF isn’t.September 11, 2014 at 16:26 #7328mackintoshParticipant
Can we please get a sticky that will explain all of TF’s pathfinding and signalling limitations? This is a topic that’s showing up literally everywhere all the time.
Here, let me get you started, the following are limitations of the pathfinding system that I have ran into, feel free to add and modify this, as I’m sure I could be wrong.
- One line per platform on multiplatform terminus stations
- Two platforms per line on intermediate multiplatform stations
- Trains cannot and will not use empty platforms under any circumstances, they will only use the platforms they have been assigned
- Paths, once calculated, are set and are not altered throughout the game (subject to signaling and track alterations)
- Trains do not overtake, it is impossible to create a siding for slower trains to wait, as the pathfinding system will gravitate to the outmost track*
* this of course can be altered by running non-electrified and electrified track side by side, but this list isn’t about workarounds, just limitationsSeptember 11, 2014 at 17:02 #7350stubblychinParticipant
Are the two trains running to the same line? A line will always go to the same platform. You’d need to create a separate line to force the other train onto the 2nd platform I think.
The trains do not dynamically choose platforms yet, although that is probably due to the fact that the resource they are picking up goes to one particular platform so they wouldn’t be able to pick up anything elsewhere even if they did change line.September 11, 2014 at 18:31 #7390ap11Participant
I also don’t understand the signals. Will oftentimes end up with two train engines head to head and have to send one or both to the depot to get the line straightened out. Would be awesome if someone made an English youtube tutorial.September 11, 2014 at 22:21 #7473xynixParticipant
Well choosing the exact track introduces new problems. While it does allow two trains on two platforms it also assigns goods to each line. In this case it’s pointless having two tracks serving a large distribution center for example. I would need twice the trains to get the goods to the end point with efficiency.September 12, 2014 at 10:51 #7568EmegParticipant
disconnectRemarkable that many gamers like the unrealism of (open) TTD. In real world a specific line is are also fixed to a specific station platform Each passenger has a specific destination and needs to know at what platform he/she must wait for their incoming train. I like this kind of realism. What (some) people want is not needed in Train Fever. The TDD system has its own solutions for its own simulation limits. I don’t want these, I like the Train Fever realism. Again, MOST signals are already placed by the a.i. and the signals you place are either acting as automated one way working signals, creating the one way block sections in a route between two stations or (mostly the bi directional working signals) are placed to create the bounderies of the a.i. train dispatchers areas, guarding in their invisible signal posts along the route the invisible a.i. placed signals. Indeed in this game each goods item has its own specific destination too, Thus it is also needed to assign the goods to specific lines waiting at a specific platform to be transported. What is wrong with this kind of realism, I like it.September 12, 2014 at 11:06 #7572YeolParticipant
Emeg, I completely agree about your remarks about the signaling. It does it job rather well in the current system with fixed paths.
But about the selection of platforms, the game lacks some controlling options. Now you can not select which “path” is using which platform. Often you will see an accumulation of paths using one platform, and other platforms are not being used at all. With waypoints one could assign a dedicated platform per path.
Also, in real life often trains arrive at the same platform. But often see an alternative platform used (train is late, during rush hour, previous train is late…). In real life a train with passengers is not kept waiting outside the station while there are free platforms to receive it. They will bring in the train on another platform. So alternative paths in Train Fever are very welcome.September 12, 2014 at 11:44 #7594mackintoshParticipant
Newsflash. This is a game. It should be fun, not a source of frustration. Anything and everything can be handwoven away by claiming that such and such is or is not in real life. It’s irrelevant if it leads to widespread user frustration. The key here is the magical word. Please. No, wait, that’s not the one. “Option”. Ah, there we are. An option that would keep the purists happy, who demand the absolute realism of 20 trains waiting in a queue as far as the horizon and maybe, just maybe, beyond. And an option to arrange our lines and our stations the way we see fit, so that we can have fun. Because that’s what games ultimately are supposed to be. Fun for everyone. Not just a select few. That’s how revolutions start.*
*hyperbole, look it upSeptember 12, 2014 at 14:54 #7640VaranaParticipant
That’s the spirit. 😀
The clamour for dynamic platform assignment has three main reasons, I think:
– Expectations from how it works in other games. As Train Fever doesn’t seem to believe in explaining, like, anything, people naturally expect things to work like they’re used to. If they don’t, it’s up to the game to tell them. You know, with a manual and stuff.
– Convenience. Realism is all fine, but lots of things in a game are not exactly realistic. Where to draw that line, is basically an arbitrary design decision. (Or, in this case, it’s imho more of a side effect of their game mechanics.) The one-platform-per-line rule is more realistic only in some aspects. So naturally, if that seemingly arbitrary decision leads to more frustrating gameplay, people want it to change.
– It doesn’t always work as intended. I could live with that restriction. There are lots of arbitrary restrictions and abstractions in a sim game. But the game insists on assigning one platform to multiple lines leaving others unused, changes platform assignment every time I change a line, has no recognisable pattern as to which changes to a line lead to a reassignment, and so on. So letting trains simply choose their platform when they arrive, presents itself as a solution to all these issues – one that has been proven to work elsewhere.September 12, 2014 at 16:52 #7666lacki2000Participant
Hi, train maniacs 🙂
I don’t like this invisible signals (trains somehow know when the line is occupied, even at long distances, maybe because a train driver sticks his ear to the track and feels vibrations 😛 ). There shall be the option to disable this automatic hidden signaling (with additional checkbox : “Yes, I am aware of catastrophic consequences of my badly placed signals”).
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