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“If hard is too hard for you then don’t play on hard.”
Stupid answer with 0% information and fact content, showing that you did not read my post (or did not understand it). Please read my posts and at least try to answer with some serious, new informations…“Hard mode isn´t hard. I have several hundred millions after short time.
The whole concept is so stupid and now everyone´s complaining that using buses and trams to connect towns is cheating, because they can´t accept that the whole game doesn´t make sense.”That is exactly my point. – From the “best vehicle for the job” point of view (or in other term playing inside the rules of the game, not self-created personal rules) is the Tram. If you can give some real arguments against this.
Wow. This thread is not for whining about a beta. (As this game is!)
Please stay with the facts and data you can get from the game and do not personally attack other player.This thread should be about the tram vs trains balance. Of course I can try not to use intercity trams, but it is extremly difficult. If you play on hard (From some statements I think the person never tried it) even with a perfect spot you could barley getting the “golden 0” in the balance. – And in the same time you can make shitloads of monies using trams…
Here is some stuff I found during testing:
– Infrastructure maintenance is not scaled with time (years). – Which makes them high in the beginning compared to the passenger count.
– There are some strange gasp / “bugs” with the vehicle timeline. – There is another thread about this. – For example “LNER Class A4” has top speed of 145, but there are no cars which can go 145 until the locomotive is already obsolete.
– The balance gets much better from 1960 / 1970 because the ratio of the top speed train vs. tram get much better – This ratio is
fastest train vs the fastest tram (running cost per passenger – tram compared to train)
1887 45km/h vs 25km/h (1/4)
1906 50km/h vs. 40km/h ( worst ratio! – 1/8)
1920 100km/h vs. 60km/h (1/7)
1965 200 vs. 60 (1/5)
– Cars do not take traffic jams into path-finding, but your tram / buses do. – Result is vicious circle, more cars: slower trams: more cars: even slower trams…
– There is pretty much no infrastructure cost for trams -> tracks, depot are free and stops are really cheap. – Even a small 3 City track with 2 train station costs about 200-300k / year…Right. At a “hard” game, you won’t make any profit with trains. The only way working is trams / trucks. – Which is kind of strange for a game called “train fever”
No, It does not mean trams have expensive running cost than trains. Trams with in-city branch lines (not inter-city) would huge losses if running cost of trams are increased (especially hard difficulty)
Maybe I misunderstood you, but currently it is exactly the opposite as you say. Trams have in all areas lower running cost than trains. My Point is that the distance between cities is to small. On most maps the distance between cities is as width as 1 city. – For example the distance from west border of city A to East of city B is as long as city A east to city A west. – Thats what doe not make sense in my opinion and make trams so over powered.
Tram = low investment (can stop on the road, does not need it own tracks etc), high acceleration, agile in cities, but capped at 60-80km/h (which is realistic, trams here in Germany are capped at max. 80km/h, usually 70km/h. only some Rapid transit lines have 120km/h with small modified vehicle)
in-game advantage: higher frequency: more passengers.
Train: lower running cost, lower acceleration, needs straight tracks (which makes using inside cities impossible), but a higher investment.And private car should not be problem when you use train extensively for inter-city transportation. You even could destroy country roads to prevent private cars, but good ‘train’ lines even make only few private cars on the streets
I know. But I bet you can get even better results with trams, using trains only from 1950+.
Please do not understand me wrong, I do not says trains are completely useless. But they get useful very late. Here are some examples for connections could be done with trains:
- high capacity goods lines (e.g. wood to saw mill, oil to refinery)
- inter city connections, after 1906 with 100km/h trains (1 -2 Cities distance, like (Cities A-B-C-D) A->D, A->C)
Strange thing I noticed: There are small passenger railcars in game, they would make much sens to replace the high-duty trams, but there are no small stations available to fit them. Building a 160m platform for 15-30m railcar is just uhhm, stupid.
1. Having more running cost on trams makes huge loss for some In-city branch lines.
nope. In total the tram has 1/4 of the running costs of a similar train. – Even with a 12-car train the running cost is 1.33 for each passenger seat, an equal amount of trams has 0.97 per passenger. (And this do not include the running costs for the stations! Neither you can fill this huge train as easy as the trams.)2. Trains are much faster than trams from 1930s, and not affected by private car traffic
They are. By people choosing car, not train. The really funny thing I experienced is people do not use private cars, if there are intercity-trams. Opposite is true for trains. (BTW: another big issue: The assumes from 1930 that every citizen has a private car…. Its like “ohhh. It is 1930, let us all buy a car! I take 8 for my family, so everybody has its own!”Faster means more opportunity to earn income and grow cities, essential to build big cities.
Try trams. You will see the cities grow even better for some reason. I had cities grown to pop. 1000+ in 1866 only with passenger trams on hard focusing on one city, something I never managed with trains.(you can still use trams for not-so-big adjacent cities, but that’s realistic so no problem. separate cities are much better with faster trains)
I say this is just wrong. Give trams a try and you will see. Later 60km/h trams are capable of connecting 4 near cities or 2-3 “far” cities…3. Tram/Bus stops have very limited capacity while train stations have enough capacity to serve one line, especially big one.
Right, but 1 train = 14 trams, still much cheaper. Please have a look at the numbers I gave above.4. Trams are often ‘stuck’ with road traffic AND public transportation itself, making it annoying especially on large maps where busy checking other lines and building more lines.
My experience from my tram fever games is: there is much less to no private traffic, when using enough buses and trams. – With trams only you can reach up to 98% coverage…
5. Trams are even not enough capacity for in-city lines on big cities (over 1500 pops) around year 1950, They even have less than 20s frequency and not enough.
Right. There is a point (around 1880-1890 in my games) where a single tram line is maxed out by cities with 1200+ pop. But try 2-5 separate line connecting cities each on its own road each. Works perfectly fine up to 3000+.
