September 9, 2014 at 04:08 #6318
So I am raising my finger and tell you: “Son, for the better in your life, get this right once and for all: The frequency is not the travel time. It is the frequency of how often a vehicel stops at a station on a line on average. Though I give you, that the game designers tried hard to confuse you. Because a frequency is measured in times per timeperiod. And if they wanted to display it correctly they would have to display
Frequency = 1/20min
Understand and remember this always, so no funny man will be able to laugh at you and then, when the two of you have an argument, will be able to tell you that you were wrong.”
Seriously, I estimate 2/3 rds of everyone who talks about game mechanics and this value that is displayed, has it wrong. Frequency is something far different than travel time. Why would travel time change if you add or remove vehicles to/from a line. Also if you calculate several things using this value, it only adds up, if it is treated as actual frequency
x times per y minutes
x times per y seconds
(x, in this case being always 1).
So if the “Frequency” displays “14min” then what this actually means is:
once per 14 minutes
On average, every 14 minutes a vehicle stops at a station of this line.September 9, 2014 at 05:48 #6329nickos111Participant
Thats what i tried to explain n a previous post.
It doesnt matter how much time there is between busses. The time of 1 bus to complete the line is devided by the number of busses on the line itself. The time between the individual busses doesnt count (altho it might happen that, after 1 bus passed a busstop, all other busses will just remain empty. So itll make ur busline non-profitable).September 9, 2014 at 07:01 #6336KromiParticipant
Another thought on this:
If the frequency of a line is 1/5 min, that means the max. waiting time for a potential passenger or freight item is 5 min.
So when I add a vehicle to the line the max. waiting time decreases and so does the everage travel time.
KromiSeptember 9, 2014 at 08:42 #6353stubblychinParticipant
So can it be said, as long as a line’s frequency less that 20 minutes, people will use the line?September 9, 2014 at 09:07 #6361
So can it be said, as long as a line’s frequency less that 20 minutes, people will use the line?
No, because waiting time is also being taken into acount.
Max travel time a passenger is willing to walk on his own is 20
travel time is calculated by: walktime from point A to station+wating time+drive distance+walktime to point B.
the more stations are between A and B the more waiting time. So lower the frequency is for us (the transportation service company, the only way to increase the travel distance of passengers (more people are willing to take the transportation service and then will help the city grow) and to lower the travel time of passengers, which has the same results.
the game is all about frequency.September 9, 2014 at 11:06 #6396
So can it be said, as long as a line’s frequency less that 20 minutes, people will use the line?
this in my thoughts is the right concluse to draw. we all noticed that neither cargo nor passengers would use a line if the value that is labled “Frequency” in the game is above 20min. by my explanation meaning, that a vehicel would stop at a station of this line, less frequent than once every 20 minutes on average. in other words, that cargo or passengers could be faced with a waiting time of more than 20 minutes. contrary if a value of less than 20min is displayed, cargo and passenger would use this line. in this case on average a vehicel would stop at a station of this line more frequent than every 20 minutes. it seems that neither cargo nor passenger cant stand to wait its ass off.
now, i have to admit, that there might be other constraints to the decission whether passengers or cargo use a line, which i do not know of. but people write about the 20min restriction. and the 20min restriction at the value that is called “frequency” is the only 20min restriction i stumbled upon in this game so far. it would be a puzzling coincidence if there was another restriction on the travel time with also 20 minutes. then i would assume a programmer at urban games set the restricitons out of love to the number 20 and not because she exercices common sense. but i assume the programmers at urban games do have a decent ammount of common sense, to not act this way. so i conclude, that everyone who writes about a limit of 20 minutes on the total travel time, misinterpreted the value that is labeled “frequency”, is infected with false knowledge an spreads it all around on the internet.
September 9, 2014 at 11:16 #6401nickos111Participant
- This reply was modified 8 years, 3 months ago by Dozer.
You are both right. People will not use a line that has over 20 min ‘frequency’. But people will also not use it if the frequency is 15 minutes, but the rest of his yourney (from A to B (house to work)) is more than the remaining 5 minutes.September 9, 2014 at 11:24 #6406
You are both right. People will not use a line that has over 20 min ‘frequency’. But people will also not use it if the frequency is 15 minutes, but the rest of his yourney (from A to B (house to work)) is more than the remaining 5 minutes.
interesting. did you test it or did you read it?
anyways thanks for the info. i guess, if that is true, some programmer at urban games does love the number 20.
and humbly i want to add, that if there is a limit on the total travel time of 20 minutes, then the time that can be spent on the rest of the journey can be something far different than the result of
20 minutes – <what is displayed at “Frequency”>
because … the travel time on the line depends on more variables than the frequency. like if traveling the whole line or just a part of it. and how many vehicles there are on the line. the value labeled “Frequency” just matches the travel time in one special case:
if there are 2 vehicles are assigned to a line and the cargo or passenger travels exactly half of the total circle of the line. which would be the case if a line connects just 2 stations.
line L connects 2 stations A and B, has 1 vehicle assigned to it and the frequency is 1/12min (which would be displayed falsely as “Frequency”: 12min). then the one vehicle needs 12 minutes for the round trip. and there is an average interval (interval is the right label for the value of 12min) of 12 minutes between the same station getting hit by any vehicle (writing “any” vehicle though there is just 1 vehicle on the line – yet – for reasons of genrealization).
if a 2nd vehicle is added to the line, the average interval between the same station getting hit by a vehicle is halfed and lowers to 6min. frequency then is 1/6min. but the time a vehicle needs to make the round trip obviously remains 12min. now if a passenger in this setup travels from A to B, she travels half the length of the round trip and it takes her 6 minutes to do so. which in this setup conincidentally is also the length of the average interval. she travels 6 minutes on a line that has an interval far below 20 minutes and has 14 minutes left for the other parts of her trip until she hits the limit of 20 minutes total travel time (which i was told about), and looses interest in traveling to that location alltogether.
if a 3rd vehicle is added to the line the original interval is divided by 3 and the average interval between the same station getting hit by a vehicel is 4min. frequency is then at 1/4min. but the time for our dear passenger to travel from A to B remains 6 minutes as the time a vehicle needs for a round trip also remains 12 minutes.
with a 4th vehicle on the line the numbers are:average interval: 3 min
time for roundtrip: 12min
time to travel A-B: 6min
so it is not legitimate to say that the limit on total travel time of 20min minus what is displayed at “Frequency” (which is the interval) is what the cargo or passenger has for the other parts if its journey.
thanks to this exhausting and in depth post i wrote, i also found the correct term for the value that is labeled “Frequency” by the game and causes so much confusion: the AVERAGE INTERVAL
lets address it like so in all future discussions.
😉September 9, 2014 at 11:37 #6413theurosParticipant
I have some questions about this topic….
I have railroad connecting points F1 (forest) –> F2 (forest) –> S (sawmill) –> C (city)
On those tracks I have two lines:
– wood from F1 to S and then goods from S to C and back to starting point
– Same line … just start point is from F2
My questions related to frequency:
1. If i have “wait for full load” .. what time is taken into calculation ? .. for each individual wood unit or entire train cargo ? Line is used if the total time doesn’t take more than 20min.. so for the first unit of wood is calculated waiting time until train is full ?
2. Is better to have two lines like I do.. or is better to transport wood from F1 to F2 and from there to S ?
3. I use same trains for transporting goods to city … is ok like that or is better to use another train just for goods because frequency is bigger because of city stop station?
thanx..September 9, 2014 at 11:50 #6414
sorry for that.
All i wanted to say is.
Traveltime is not the same as the frequency in the line menu.
Passengers and cargo have a travel raduis of 20min (point A to B). By adding transportation with faster traveloptions, you increase this radius. That’s was most of the people say. I haven’t tested it myself.
I think it was estimated by building a line with a distance with a longer traveltime with one vehicle. So the menu says “frequency 22 minutes”. No passengers/cargo was lining up for this line.
I will do some testing on this, if you can extend the travel time of passengers/cargo by lowering the frequency on a line with a travel time >20min.
I can not say, how people did get to the conclusion, walking time and waiting time is also been taken into acount. I’ve never done so much research in the forums.September 9, 2014 at 12:32 #6424September 9, 2014 at 14:16 #6459MoratParticipant
It can’t be frequency alone that determines whether or not someone uses the line. The devs have said that total travel time to destination is what is used to decide if the line is used or not. Frequency tells me how often a train will arrive, so I know how much the waiting time is – but how do you know what the travel time is?
I can’t see anywhere in the current UI to determine what the travel time for a train on a line is.September 9, 2014 at 14:40 #6470HenkieParticipant
They should add more information. Frequency is nothing more how much time there is between two stops. So if the bus just left how much is the waiting time for the next bus. The information which is also important what the travel time is between point A and point B.
Ideally they should create an information overlay for each line showing, for every stop, the travel time to the next stop and the waiting time.September 9, 2014 at 14:50 #6475KromiParticipant
But the travel time depends on the vehicle. You could use different vehicles with different speed and acceleration capabilities on the same line.
…as I write this I’m asking myself what that means regarding frequency.
September 9, 2014 at 15:36 #6490
- This reply was modified 8 years, 2 months ago by Kromi.
frequency is one of the two variables to influence travel time. second is, station postitioning.
when traveltime is calculated as followed:
walktime from point A to station + waiting time + drive distance + walktime from station to point B
so the travel distance will change over the time, because of faster transportation options.
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